Sunday, December 25, 2011

One more Amway/Quixtar Story

One of the anonymous commentors on my site has shared his Amway/Quixtar Story. You would not get to hear REAL stories like these in the opens, pase or on CDS. But sadly this is the story of 99% of the IBOs.

"Just like yourself I got started about a decade ago and I graduated top of my class and got multiple job offers. RIght around the same time, I was exposed to this opportunity by a person who went to school with me. I saw the plan and it made sense. I loved the association where people spoke positive and felt these are group of people who are growing somewhere in life. I started showing the plan and noticing most of friends and families were not excited about it. I felt that I will prove them wrong by succeeding.

As I was making good enough money from my workplace, I wasn't counting money for the standing order, 300 PV (1000$) and the trips to New Jersey where the leaderships were happening. We were 11 wide paying 7 PV checks and were profitable. I liked everything what the business has to offer, what the speakers said and the whole nine yards. When things did not happen, I did not google the internet to hear other people's experiences. I was part of Rishi and Shampa's team who were new Emeralds. Very aggressive funny couple. There are lot of doctors who were involved which gave great credibility to the whole thing.

Main problem started when one of the uplines decided to go Q12 and Emerald. They said " We are counting on you". I had vowed that I will do everything in my side to make it happen and so are my cross lines. Upline went Emeralds and we were talk of the town as we were one of the people who made it happen. There are few months where we did personal 2000-3000 PV. We had about 40 people in our team and we did not make anyone buy extra stuff as we were not comfortable doing that. Uplines directly did not force like Exeagle case, but since we knew them for 4-5 years at that time, they said stuff like "whatever you do for uplines someone will do it for you".

Since we were making good money we made it happen. We had extra E-Springs, Atmospheres to make the entire city clean. Finally the day came where I lost my job and my wife was taking care of the household. Within months, she lost her job and we were making roughly about 800$-$1000$. We were spending about 1000$ on the products and another 300$ on tools, associations etc. Whatever we were spending before, we had to slow down and watch what we are spending. Uplines who had set higher goals had the same expectations that " we will do whatever it takes". The moment we talked about our financial situations and what is happening, they said not to worry and focus on the business. Well, the months of qualification started and we couldn't do extra volume other the regular 300 PV (even that looked like a big chunk and we started charging in the credit cards). The moment we backed of and started talking about financial situation, they started putting us through guilt and saying stuff like , "Are you fired up'?" What happened to you? Can't you retail? Retailing can take care of your financial situation?

Uplines starting calling our people and started mentioning that they need to stretch to make things happen. We had built tremendous relationships with our team and they were comfortable with us all the time and after they started getting calls like these from uplines they expressed their dissatisfaction about getting calls during work hours, late hours and felt pressured. I brought this to my uplines attention and they got defensive and they mentioned that everything they did was to help my team go. I had told them that I am not comfortable with this pressurizing and told them to slow down and back off.

This was the time I really slowed down to think what me and my wife have accomplished for the past 7 years. We had a sizable group making about close to $1000 bucks but again whatever we built , our uplines destroyed and our team started to exit away. Long story short, I started seeing the rift between my downlines and uplines. Even though everybody seems to be having good time, there were lot of undercurrents. There was a Q12 ruby in our diamonds team (Bald Bengali couple) who always built the business with many people. He was going Emerald 10 years back. He is yet to go Emerald. Rishi and Shampa, our upline Emeralds were talk of the town when I got started. He was like a body guard to Kanti Gala and were powerful speakers. Now I am not sure they are building the business.

The last Emerald in our uplines team was my uplines which was several years back. I am just talking about upline Diamondship which is TD and Suparna. If the business is growing in leaps and bounds, wouldn't you expect more people to go Platinum, Emerald and Diamond. I am not talking like it is everyone else responsibility to move on. I slowed down and looked at my financial cash-flow. My wife and I worked hard to find a good job. It doesn't have the promises of business but at least I felt I do not have to give false promises to people saying in a period of 6 months, you will make $3000. I am able to sleep better. When I was actively building the business, my uplines gave lot of guilt trips. My sister was getting married. We went home for four days and behaved like guests. On the outside we said we built the business for the family. Inside we hardly spent time on anything.

Anything we enjoyed we had a side order of guilt which was killing us. Last three years we took good vacations, cruises, everything self paid but no debt. What is my conclusion? If you have a good upline who lets you be you and build the business with right mindset who never pushes you for volume and never pushes you to buy extra tools (when you already have it), keep building it. Build it once, build it right. Please do not manipulate your hard earned relationship to get PVs. I enjoyed the business when I built it right. The moment my uplines started pressurizing my team, my fun ended and they lost us and our team. Now, they might have to do the same thing with different set of eyeballs (maybe talk about us as someone who lost their dream, whatever!). This is not the way I choose to lead my life.


  1. It is very true. We had the same experience. When our upline going platinum, we were given all false hopes and we had a lot of personal orders. And when there was a situation where we needed help, we were told that "this is a business, and you have to handle it". When we told that we do not want Standing Order, uplines were furious and started telling all sorts of magic words to keep us in that. Eventually, I came out and saved a lot.

    Honestly, 99% of people who are doing this business, had they know real business knowledge would not accept for these kind of support materials which eats 99% of your money.

  2. Retail? Does that exist? Come on, Amway is an internal consumption model with a horrible break-even ratio.

    I saw dozens of people in my own group being pressured to do just the thing you are talking about.

    MLM compensation plans require 99% plus failure in order for one person to break even. Even if you built the business with your "right" mindset, 99% of those in your business will always be operating in the red.

    The problem begins at the core of the model with a horrible compensation plan the rest escalates from there.

  3. Here's a very different story for you. I started this biz 12 years ago as a student. Took me 4 years to go Silver - but did it right, no crazy PV pushing, about 15-17 SOCDs, but only 2 legs so got a cheque of about $1200. However, fell back the following month to about 6000PV. Major cardinal rule violations started.

    My downline D1 thought of me as a joker due to major age difference. My other leg D2 was job-income wise on shaky ground. My immediate upline U1 was in Q12 qualification and his upline, my mentor U2 was in Founders Sapphire & Emerald qualification. My qualification started in April, this bothered U1 as at that time
    you needed 4000PV on the side and poor guy had to "stretch" to build it. U2 couldn't care less becuz I was completely brainwashed by him and he also had control over my major leg D1.

    Now, I was still a young kid and blue-eyed student of the system. In my utter ignorance, I failed to realize for the longest time that U1 & U2 were using me to ensure their Q12 & Founders Sapphire bonuses. Between May & August, I must have spent about $15K out of my pocket to ensure their success (all on line of credit). My group gradually were convinced that all I cared about was their PV even though it was my mouth but upline's brains.

    So long story short, come Sep of following fiscal year, my total PV was hardly 1500PV. Eventually, U1 went Q12 and quit. D1 & D2 also quit. U2 is now a <>. They violated every single cardinal rule repeatedly, unashamedly for the 4 years after I went Silver, when I quit.

    But, 18 months after my Silvership, married the best lady in the world whom I met at a major function. Did well in my job (tripled my income in 6 years). And then, rejoined with a different leader in our city, whom everybody knows as a true practitioner and preacher of Amway principles and ethics.

    Been 2 years. Reached 1500PV - 2500PV couple of months, with a group that did not sustain. Average 600-1000PV. But am having a blast building it now. Took me years to unlearn that emotional abuse that I allowed U2 to inflict upon my self-image.

    Today, have been married for almost 7 years, have an angel for a daughter, an amazing relationship with my wife and this business.
    Our combined job incomes are 150K-200K.

    Why did I rejoin? Becuz U2 was the problem and I took responsibility (not blame or guilt) for letting him get away with murder repeatedly. Not Amway. Not BWW. Definitely both entities are not perfect. But their compensation plans, their principles are truly worth living and striving towards.

    There a lot of good stories and a lot of bad ones as well in terms of IBO experiences. I am pragmatic enough to say they are all true and I truly feel for the bad ones as I have totally been there and know how cheated and hurt it feels. In fact U2 continues to qualify Diamond every year and get this, leg 1 & 2 are on cruise control, 3 and 4 get beaten around (poor guys, one of them was a really good friend to me), and 5 and 6 keep changing like new bakras waiting to be slaughtered every year (U2's wife is a PV ATM).

    My original downlines D1 & D2 were responsored by U2. D1 went 4000PV and quit. D2 went Gold and is now a Silvers & above leadership attender. But U2 hates it that I did not go away.
    He bad mouthed me to the hilt to anyone who would give him 2 minutes of their undivided attention and now he cannot believe that I did not go away. CONTD....

  4. CONTD...

    Been 2 years since I rejoined. In fact, I quit to rejoin.
    Mentally, had to change as old bad memories had to replaced with good new ones. So, worked the business in short bursts and then slowed down.

    But, 2 months ago recommitted with Q12 & Solid North American Founders Emeraldship as a 4 year goal. Have become very grocery-store oriented in terms of what to listen to and what to
    ignore. When minor erroneous things are said, I ignore them. When major ones are said, I bring them to upline's attention who genuinely listens and succeeds in resolving them in due time almost always. Wife and I vowed not to care about PINs but the business and the income that comes along with them.

    Am aware of the fact that a number of Platinums, Emeralds & Diamonds are not qualified and a number of them are qualified. But the fact remains that potentially a Q12ship built with 4 working legs and Double Eagelship yields $40K annually plus Achievers trip and potentially a North American Founders Emeraldship with Eagle/4000PV on the side yields about $160K++ income when PV cheque, leadership bonus, depth bonus, Growth Incentives, Profit Sharing and System Income are taken into account.

    Not easy, I know. But if done with a mature, emotionally disciplined mindset and obviously a lot of effort, quite doable. In fact, am frank in telling people now that Q12 business is a 1-2 year 20+ plans/month effort. Which, including the meetings and follow-ups, etc requires a 20 hour per week commitment minimum. Also, tell them now that quality of their people, in terms of age and income level will be factors in their success ratios. And that there are no guarantees and yes some do succeed
    faster than others but such is life.

    Maybe the frank approach is also a factor affecting success ratios as you can tell from my current PV level :) But at least my
    family loves me, the couple of people I have in my group love me, my new uplines & I have not had any minced words or misunderstanding and I sleep well at night. Thats a lot to be thankful for.

    Why am I on this site then? Becuz true stories, good or bad, of success or failure, all have something to teach. And thank you to all of you for sharing your experiences as they remind me my vow to be a good example and hopefully a good ambassador for this business. All the best to all of you in all of your future
    endeavors. I truly believe that you love your families just as much as I love mine and just becuz you had circumstances that resulted in your decision to quit doesn't change that. Your intention behind quitting was them same as your intention of joining and building the business: better future for you and your family.

    My father and some of the more intelligent books that I have read through the system have always taught me that there are different strokes for different folks. God bless

    1. I really loved your entry. My wife and I have been in the business for several years and only recently went platinum and after reading a few stories here we feel so blessed to be part of our upline platinum and diamonds team who never pressured us into anything. My diamond is a great example - super wide and fostering relationships in our depth to make sure he secures volume without jeopardizing any relationships.

      I wish you all the success and agree with your take. The business is pure, BWW is pure. Some uplines maybe manipulative but it is up to us to be responsible for our decisions.

      I applaud you for having the guts to move to a different LOS and test not spill out any names. All the best and some day I truly wish to see you in diamond club.

    2. We are going through the same LOS issues. How do you change your LOS but yet save your years of work with your loyal down lines who want to stay with you?

    3. Now now.. since this post is from 2012, I am assuming you are at least a 7500 producer doing it the right way.

      Care to share your current pin/status with us?

  5. hey guess u are from ontario?? if so, i have a story to share as well

  6. Stay away from Indians, Hindus in general are sly, cunning, inconsiderate money minded selfish greedy bastards. Just recently I was introduced to an Indian couple by my upline, their names were Ashwin Nandkumar and Kavya Nandkumar. Both were dirty from top down, I was told that Ashwin was a VP at Morgan Stanley and his wife was a President at Citibank. Now I have no idea if this was true or all fake made up bullshit stories.

  7. BWW always claim to fame is we always have new diamonds..This year no new diamonds..What does it tell you? Kumar will say "Nobody made the decision to go Diamond"(No 6 people made the decision to go Platinum..thankfully)..This time, they will show Dr. Braich who was going Crowns in 2008 went Crown Ambassador..So they will showcase them as the main success profile.. Chak is another one who went EDC.. Thankfully nobody made the decision to go diamond..and thus 6 people and their teams lives are saved. Keep up the great work BWW.

  8. thank you for telling your story, i am sorry that you went through that to me... thats not okay, these stories they help me become a better leader and show me the things i need to avoid when my wife and i reach the same level and responsibility as your uplines were at.

  9. I was signed by Rohit Kulkarni and Kanchan Kulkarni who introduce me to Yogesh and Sarika who they said were Emerald and have big house and drive Lexus and Tesla and started business when they were student and did well to be deans list student. Rohut told me he has big student team in Southern California, but when I went to meetings, I saw nobody even give a crap about Rohit. He was like a joker who was trying to impress everyone. I could look at Rohit and Sandesh and could say these guys were manipulative and just lying in open meetings and pase meetings. Pase meetings are so much fun in Amway BWW where every friday evening all these people come together and keep talking and keep talking till past midnight. I did not have car so had to wait for someone to drop me. I would highly recommend students to not join Amway. It is just a waste of time and energy and whatever little money you have.

    1. Ha ha anonymous.

      You were part of yegesh's team? I did business under his team. Good he got tesla. I can tell you that's not from Amway income. He is a sitting sapphire hen to his sapphire brother in sa diego. Must have been in business so long and was emerald one time, but nothing to show for now except fake pin.

    2. Buddy, here is my open challenge to you...If u have a ounce of self image and little bit me...lets compare success and income even outside of this business as am sure you do not have any (fake or real) pin to show...And I dont need to hide behind Anonymous....This is Yogesh...Let me know when and where...

    3. Sabaash..Seriyana Potti... Yogesh payya..Ippo yenna saivinga..ippo yenna saivinga..(for all Tamil drama fans)..

    4. what are these ibos doing here? must they not be in walmart or frys hunting for new people to join their scam? go do your 9 core steps like you were told in last function by your upline.

    5. thanks but no thanks! not interested in meeting any of you amway guys :P

    6. CA Shah Team Open Meeting is the best. So many diamonds-emeralds-sapphires-platinums all in one open meeting. We are fortunate to be in this team.

    7. Okay Awesome. Why are you hanging out with the negative people on this negative blog the?

  10. Hey sound like you are in Yogesh Sarika team in Bay Area. I was IBO in Chetan Rastogi Diamondship and Pankaj Archana Diamondship in California. Here is list of people I know quit. They were all big pins.

    Dipak Savira (founders platinum)
    Dipak Savira entire family (one platinum, a few golds/silvers/eagles)
    RJ (eagle)
    Rakesh Shilpi (sapphires)
    Sudu Shelly (platinum)
    Rajesh Pagaku (silver)
    Murali (silver)
    Saten Shivani (platinum)
    Amar Sarika (platinum)
    Gorav Rashida (platinum)
    Rakshit Vejanti (platinum)
    Parminder Sonia (platinum)
    Sukhpreet (platinum)
    Amarsen (silver)

    This is just leaders in our one open. So imagine how many others are quitting.

    1. Thank you for sharing. Sounds like we should start a new kind of Amagram :-)

    2. It should margama...(inverse of the same) as Pins are going back...

    3. I attend one open meeting in Sacramento. Is it still there?

    4. Deepak is active q12 founders platinum starting emerald qualification. I met him in open meeting today. Go fact check your bullshit.

  11. Betsy Devos of the Amway families is now into American Senate as Education Minister, so now I wonder what my kids will be learning

    1. Yeah we will have prosumer power, e-commerce, Atilah the Hun as part of our curriculum for our kids.

    2. I just found this out doing some research on Amway (I was recently approached by a stranger and it took the 3rd meeting to find out the opportunity he was pitching was indeed Amway). It sounds like her position as the Secretary of Education is to get rid of public schools in favor of vouchers or charter schools - this is in line with what I heard from the speakers at the meetings with regards to public schools being a way to train future "mindless employees" to toil in the "E" and "S" side of Robert Kiyosaki's "cashflow quadrant". Cutting the number of kids getting a good basic K-12 education would mean fewer going on to higher education/rewarding careers and more employees in menial jobs, fodder for the shining star of hitting the jackpot in network marketing like Amway. I've also discovered Amway's large contributions to the Republican party which are yet another reason I will steer clear.

    3. Scary. Just found out about her Amway ties.

  12. I was a Amway IBO with WWDB in Spokane. I did the business between 2007 to 2014. The highest pin I ever reached was 2500PV. I was never profitable and spent more money than I ever made. My girlfriend at the time had a high profile job so she was never able to join me in building business. Eventually I quit not being able to make any money.

    I have completely wiped Amway chapter off my life, but I can say these few things that I learnt are the intangibles of Amway and the system I was associated with.

    1 - Setting Goals
    2 - Associating with like minded people who want to move ahead in life (not necessarily doing Amway)
    3 - The power of a positive mindset, power of spoken word
    4 - Reading and personal development
    5 - Staying 100% with your wife
    6 - Not blindly following anyone who might not have any good intentions with your financial future but might just say so

    I have become a better person, a better husband, a better father, a better employee.

    Maybe I might have developed these skills overall as not joining Amway but the chances are less. However I did pay a huge price. Anyways.. that's what I learnt.

    Hope this gives you little insight. Now would I rejoin Amway or any other MLM out there, I would say never ever. The business model is not right. It is based on lying-cheating-sneaking.

    1. Spokane - so were you part of the mythical Brad & Julie group? I'm also in Washington state, recently approached about becoming an IBO (all the lingo and acronyms used in reference to the Amway world reminds me of the military!), though I didn't know it was Amway for several "interviews" meetings. Some might consider that a bit deceitful. It looks like a good program for certain people at a certain time in their life (younger), those with the sales drive have an opportunity to make the money they want... though it does seem to come at a cost of giving up your free time, your friends that don't drink the kool-aid, and a for a lot of people, you end up losing money. I see a small (very small, by the orgs own statistics... ie in 2015 .655% of IBOs in north america achieved Founders Platinum - that is less than one percent!) group of people making money at this, and that money has to come from just two places: someone buying Amway products, or people paying for training materials and seminars/meetings. Am I missing something? Is there some other, hidden spigot of income? I did some pricing checking on Amway products vs local discount retailers (Fred Meyer, Costco )and found that even with a 35% discount most of their products are more expensive than similar items. I would have a hard time selling people on a product that costs more than a competitors.
      Ultimately, after reading/researching a lot and thinking about it, this is not the right opportunity for me. I do appreciated ExEagle's blog and everyone that has posted here, both the pro and con of the Amway business model. If anything, it has made me think about my goals in life and realize I already have some passive income channels that I could spend more time nuturing. Cheers!

  13. I was appalled by a post by Nanda Sringari talking about his dad passing away and how this business allowed them to bring parents to US to watch olympics and being with them etc? Really? Amway IBO's have to milk every single situation and make it sound like everything happens because of Amway. Let me tell something to the Kool aid drinking IBO's, if not for dumping money in Amway and buying stupid useless cds and books and flying around the country for leadership events with fake pin, I could have done a lot more for my Parents in terms of money and time and could have had meaningful relationships.

  14. Totally appalled by these guys. Some dumbass spoke to me at the mall over the weekend and called me on Sunday and was telling how the guy he works with his wife retired. I was like - ok she must be old. He didn't know what to say and walked away dumbfounded.

    Such a tool.

  15. LOL. I just love the tag line everyone uses. I am retired or my wife is BS. I have seen with my own eyes my friends join and leave the business in a few months hating the process and how they were treated and the amount of time and money they wasted.