Monday, June 27, 2011

BWW/Upline Tool Refund Policy

I am posting an anonymous commenter's comment as a separate post.

"On May 20, my credit card was automatically charged for the next quarter (until Aug 20)for $50+ for the Bww TV and Webspace package .It was around this time when I decided to not do the business anymore. So, I missed cancelling that service and was charged. Anyway, that is fine and usual business practice. However, next thing I noticed is that immediately my Website and BWW TV service stopped working even though I had paid until Aug 20!! I contacted Bww and they said that the service cancels immediately upon cancellation! Now that is not how businesses operate, the so called "traditional" businesses that BWW puts down so much would either give me a partial refund or at least continue my service until the date I have paid for it!! I don't know where I can report a business practice like this."

One more testimony that any money that goes to upline/system is like a one way channel. Any chance of getting a refund is slim to none unless you are persistent and consistent:)

By the way, most of the videos posted on BWWTV are filmed at functions. You pay for the functions, then pay for cds to listen to these talks and then again YOU HAVE TO PAY TO WATCH THESE TALKS AGAIN. Upline and system is interested in only one thing and that is their profit.

By the way here are Amway's rules regaring tool returns: During the first 90 days following an IBO's registration, the IBO may return all BSM of any form purchased, including meeting tickets, together with proof of purchase, for a 100% refund of the price paid for such BSM. Except as provided in Rule, an IBO end-user of BSM may return BSM purchased, together with proof of purchase, within 180 days following purchase, for a refund on commercially reasonable terms.

If I remember correctly, there used to be rule that an IBO can get off BSMs any time they want to. Dont know what happened to that. Remember, Amway keeps tweaking their rules. They will tweak and tweak till everything is in the big pins favor.

If in case, any of you IBOs decide to get off standing order and your upline says things like, it takes a couple of weeks to get you off standing order or any other excuse, do know that they are just giving you a bunch of BS. These same guys will put an IBO on standing order as soon as the IBO is willing to get on it. Why didnt it take them 2 weeks to put them on standing order?

Do share your comments if any of have had tough time getting a refund for tools from your upline.


  1. This is where many IBOs just end up quitting. But to expose the scam and make them accountable, file a FORMAL complaint with Amway and the better business bureau. If enough of these complaints aren't dealt with, maybe some action can be taken against the tool kingpins.

  2. This system definitely works...let me finish the sentence...not for everyone.. All the upline Diamonds who have paid their way (they mention in CDs paving way) but actually they made their downlines pay the way so that they look great. I used to be in Shah team. I have seen few of my crosslines from Desai team who bought their way to their respective pins. Some of the diamonds add value when they speak. Eg. Ganesh Shenoy, Nick Soni. Some of them add value when they don't speak. Eg. Suresh Partha. This guy has poor self image and cannot make a coherent talk. I always used to pray he speaks when the team members are absent as he really was total crap. Sandhya was good.

    Some of my crosslines diamonds are great go getters. They get the money and run. I really wish all these pins die in a plane crash so that people can live peacefully.

    1. It's more of a legal pyramid scam, its great if you have time and money because you have to pay out about 450 in your money or other customers money to recieve 150 point value. Now idk about you guys but i spend most of my spare money in food which amway cannot provide. Furthermore they fail to mention the gas it costs me about 25 dollars to go to the weekly meetings that they recommend and another 5-15 a day just to go to places to 'offer the opprotunity'. This is a pyramid scam, a legal one, but one none the less.

  3. Here is how the business is described now

    "We used to use the McDonald’s analogy to describe the business. In the age of social networks, there’s a better and more accurate way to describe how our business works. At an overview or hotel meeting, if you ask who’s on Facebook, nearly everybody raises their hand. They understand how social networks work, and how they grow. And everybody has some experience purchasing from Amazon or another online supplier.

    We made it very simple to explain: Where your social network meets an opportunity and supply network, you can create a business network. And as more and more people begin to refer others and make purchases from the supply network, the bigger your business network grows."

    ROFL. There is a simple way to describe the business. This is Amway and this is how it works. Instead you have to sit through crap for one- one and half hours and in the last ten-fifteen minutes, you will get to hear about Amway.

    BTW, how long will they talk about S curve. 10 years ago they talked about how starting a mobile kiosk might not be very profitable since it is already saturated, but internet commerce is the next thing and NOW is the right time to join the business. The S- curve must be like giraffe's neck now

  4. Sell them on tooldepot with serious price difference, you get 1$ per cd.
    My ass*&^% upline platinum still buys packed cds from there and tries to sell to his group. That is why he is a platinum for past 4 years with less than 10 people in his group.

  5. The whole business of Amway and Quixtar is a trap of making money. Just ask your upline Emerald as to how much he makes for each Function Ticket sold? Please ask him to sear on his most favorite book, child etc where you know he cannot lie. Each Emerald in BWW makes $5 / ticket sold and thats why you are discouraged from selling tickets outside and have to go to "situations desk". If you are late and the tickets go unsold, you lose money, but yourt upline Emerald still makes his cut since he forced you to buy. I know people in this system who are Emeralds and above in the Gala West Coast system who have confided in me about this. So when they say "I do not make a single penny from your ticket" a bunch of lies. Diamonds make 10 dollars and above. So if Kanti Gala takes 10000 people, he may end up making close to $100000 in one shot. Thats the residual income guys, not the PV income. Amway income is piddly compared to this system crap. I left the business as a Q12 and attended the Nite Owl of a guy named TD Dutta from NY or NJ. What a crook. He told the whole San Jose Platinums and up that he has 6 qualified US legs, whereas everyone knows he does not. Met a downline of his (Pakistani Origin) from Michigan who happened to be downline to his BIL (also a Pakistani muslim, has a auto dealership or something) from NJ. He still has water filters shoved down his throat by TD Dutta's wife so that BIL upline can qualify so this TD guy can go Diamond. Needless to say they quit. Many of the Gala Diamonds do not qualify diamonds anymore unless they are backed by rich pickings from Indian legs which save their behinds. All these Diamond Clubs and Hawaii trips are all made up by upline Diamond discretionary points which upline gives to take people who do not have 6 qualified legs to Peter Island. Even the hotel rates have diamond cuts and commissions. Ever since I have stopped the business in 2005, I have talked and researched ex-IBOs in Emerald and Diamond positions such as Mark Diamond, Steve Ridley etc who do not have practically any residual coming. Many of them are just Q12s and their legs have changed LOA for mentor ship such as the Chicago Vemus under Desais. Their original upline makes the PV money but the Desais in NY or NJ (not sure) make the system income by selling CDs, Books etc. Amway accreditation specifies that all system tools are refundable and we all sign to that. When I quit, I asked my upline in Texas if I can get a refund of the CDs and books that I would not need any more. He mentioned NO and also he said I still need to pay him for 2 months of SOT and BOM since he will need 2 months to stop the delivery. I called BWW and they said that is a bunch of lies. Since then he has stopped replying my phone calls and emails and my grown up son told me, dad chill and forget. He mentioned that no point getting irritated in Milpitas over some crook in Austin. BTW Ganesh is not the first divorce in Gala group. The honor goes to Jalawant Wakil I believe who happened to be married to Leena. Then he started the Paul Miller thing with Asha and one fine morning they were Jalawant and Asha. No mention of Leena anywhere. Paul Miller was actually banging Leslie for 21 years before he was caught by Debbie "Dewdrops". After all thes e goodie talks of family values, home team, Bill officiated the wedding of Paul and Leslie. The BWW team broke up from there with 3/4th of Paul's team leaving in disgust along with Crows, Spencers etc. Bill talsk about no "living together" whereas his EDCs David Taylor and Rocky Covington are banging their girlfriends without even discussing marriage. So much for BS. I cannot write anymore about this absolute travesty and debauchery of a business and playing with innocent lives who could have made more by opening a restaurant and would not have had to lie, cheat and deceive people. But will respond to the gung-hos here if anyone has questions.

  6. @Anonymous (October 10 aka Q12) what LOS were you a part of?

    Also curious, apparently you were in BWW/part of Gala team:
    1. Do you know what happened to the Larry Winters and John Crowe groups
    2. Is crosslining really enforced?
    3. I find it hard to imagine that system money is more than amway money for anyone other than the high-level EDCs. Are you saying the system money is more even at Emerald and Q12 levels? I don't see how the math works out. Too many
    4. How often are Pins at Q12 and above usually requalifying?
    5. To be fair, what did you like about the business? to have built it to Q12 I'm sure you saw something of value and that there are some positives that remain with you.
    6. How would you suggest BWW improve to be more effective?

  7. I thought the Winters split was because Bill Britt kicked out Larry for tax issues? I think that's what I'd heard--I"m just the messenger.

    Also are you saying Vemu is not in gala group? I will be surprised if Gala group is not unified, I'd thought the gala team was very traditional and conservative (you are not allowed to hug and if you look at a girl (or guy if you're a girl) for more than a second you are reprimanded, etc).

  8. so much banging going on in this business...I think I just might join now

  9. can anyone help me to unsubscribe from standing order subscription

    1. You just have to email your upline. Have documentation of your request. Then dont pay them. If you had already given them cheques, close that bank account. Good luck. Dont fall for the guilt trip.

  10. such a bs if you build it to q12 and you quit you are a moran or you did something wrong and kick your as out hahaha